Curse

Ratson Itamar · Jul 11, 2009, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Well, then it's a mistake to compare the two. When you equip BiP, you're a biper. As simple as that, it's your most important role and in most cases it's your only. On the opposite, death nova is just a complimentary to your arsenal. It's a very good edition but it doesn't build or break a build, it's there to support its overall DPS.

ajc2123 · Jul 11, 2009, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Yeah, I'm trying to be a troll because I said how easy it would be to use a minion bar, since it would be similar to spamming BIP on your party, making your previous comment invalid, and also saying the pet bar update would be similar to making a minion bar update making it just as realistic.

Yeah I'm absolutely a troll. Don't be mad cuz I don't like your suggestion.

Changing Death nova is a shortcut halfass way to make human MM's viable. Making a minion bar update is the correct way to fix the problem, and allowing for even more skills such as jagged to be viable.

IronSheik · Jul 11, 2009, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

Changing Death nova is a shortcut halfass way to make human MM's viable. Making a minion bar update is the correct way to fix the problem, and allowing for even more skills such as jagged to be viable.

It at least fixes the problem without totally altering it's use, Heroes are better than human MMs simply due to this skill, a human has to OoU EBSoH to even compare to bombing.

And comments like "pet bar update says hi" makes you a troll, I'm not calling anyone else who said notsigned one.

ajc2123 · Jul 11, 2009, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

It at least fixes the problem without totally altering it's use, Heroes are better than human MMs simply due to this skill, a human has to OoU EBSoH to even compare to bombing.

And comments like "pet bar update says hi" makes you a troll, I'm not calling anyone else who said notsigned one.

Wrong, Not only death nova, but they are also superior due to their ability to Heal AND be a MM, or use skill such as dwaynas sorrow improving their effectiveness. Prot some allies and raise some minions AND bomb. Also theres the whole list of Hero pros such as being there when you need them etc etc. If you think Death nova is the ONLY reason Hero MM are better then you are sadly mistaken.

Once again, minion bar would make this a lot easier and make humans better as a whole.

And Wrong, that comment was just to prove that it would be a viable update...again.

Ratson Itamar · Jul 11, 2009, 02:19 AM // 02:19

With every post you make you show how little experience you have with being a Minion Masters.

1. I didn't call you a troll because you disagreed with me. I didn't understand you and thought you were just trolling. I'm sorry if I have offended you, it wasn't my purpose.

2. Adding a minion bar won't make human MMs viable because managing 8 minions, supporting your 8 party member (and maybe even allies) and debuffing your opponents all at once is way too much to ask from a human being.

3. A minion bar won't make Jagged Bones more viable, it's a bad skill regardless. The issue isn't with the problem of spamming it on dying minions because the skill itself isn't spammable. It just shows that you're not the one to make suggestions regarding this subject.

Edit: Regarding ajc2123's last post:
Even with a minion bar humans won't be capable of comparing with a hero, for reasons you mentioned yourself. That's why we need to empower human players and not level the playing field. We need to make human MMs stronger than heroes and not equal. Just like it is with every other class/role.

FoxBat · Jul 11, 2009, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Heros aren't THAT good, they don't catch every single dying minion with a death nova. This change would be a vast buff for the heroes too, since every minion would always nova and it would take very little time for them to set up. You could easily toss this on a discord bar for example and not worry about the hero spamming nova too much.

Helix Dreadlock · Jul 11, 2009, 02:24 AM // 02:24

theres really no point

/no

Nerel · Jul 11, 2009, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Running an MM I never bother with Death Nova on my bar in PvE, while it is a great skill, delivering exceptional damage, targeting the right minion (the weakest, most damaged or those being attacked by enemy melee) isn't always the easiest thing to manage for a player, letting a hero manage the Death Nova with their god like reflexes and insane targeting ability is the only way to go.

I've thought about an AoE version of Death Nova, perhaps as an elite skill, in the past, but reading your suggestions, IronSheik, made me consider another simple change that would make this skill more useful for players...

Allowing the single cast to enchant all allies would be far too OP in some situations, even with the reduced damage you have suggested running a horde of 10-20 minions into an enemy mob with strong AoE damage could easily result in 10-20 Death Novas going off in the space of a few seconds, killing Ele bosses would be too easy...

Now if a single cast of Death Nova enchanted ALL allies, but only the first ally to die would actually trigger a Death Nova (akin to how Angelic Bond works) then that would remove the threat of having 10-20 simultaneous exploding minions and still over come the issue of targeting the right minion.

I'd prefer Death Nova stay as it is, and MMs have access to a minion screen to aid in targeting, but your suggestion has merit in a GW without such a screen.

ajc2123 · Jul 11, 2009, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

With every post you make you show how little experience you have with being a Minion Masters.

1. I didn't call you a troll because you disagreed with me. I didn't understand you and thought you were just trolling. I'm sorry if I have offended you, it wasn't my purpose.

2. Adding a minion bar won't make human MMs viable because managing 8 minions, supporting your 8 party member (and maybe even allies) and debuffing your opponents all at once is way too much to ask from a human being.

3. A minion bar won't make Jagged Bones more viable, it's a bad skill regardless. The issue isn't with the problem of spamming it on dying minions because the skill itself isn't spammable. It just shows that you're not the one to make suggestions regarding this subject.

Edit: Regarding ajc2123's last post:
Even with a minion bar humans won't be capable of comparing with a hero, for reasons you mentioned yourself. That's why we need to empower human players and not level the playing field. We need to make human MMs stronger than heroes and not equal. Just like it is with every other class/role.

1. I was irritated at the other guy not you.

2. Your right, but that's because of their ungodly reaction time. Something unchangeable even with skill buffs.

3. Im sorry but I didn't get the memo that jagged bombers were bad. I'm pretty sure it at LEAST used to be the meta before AotL. With a 40/40 set this skill is still good. a 5 energy minion that causes a condition to power things like discord. Pretty low cost and easily used if...once again...minion bar.

Ratson Itamar · Jul 11, 2009, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Heros aren't THAT good, they don't catch every single dying minion with a death nova. This change would be a vast buff for the heroes too, since every minion would always nova and it would take very little time for them to set up. You could easily toss this on a discord bar for example and not worry about the hero spamming nova too much.

I have to strongly disagree with you on this one. This suggested change will make heroes weaker while making players better.

With a discord team there're lots of minions dying and raising constantly. heroes don't have a foresight and thus will waste their energy on a signle corpse exploit while human players won't.

The argument that the heroes won't spam DN because of discord is simply wrong. They're spamming it today, so without a serious improvement to the AI (which is counter active really) they would run out of energy very soon.

IronSheik · Jul 11, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Helix

Read the thread, you'll see the point, or compare human damage to heroes

Nerel

Imo Casting death nova on one minion makes your suggestion a little moot, sure it casts on all of them, but if you cast it on the one minion it'll get nearly the same effect. My damage suggestion would be a little OP due to spammability compared with 10 death novas and other skills, so it would have to be changed by lowering damage, recharge, etc.

Ajc
Any human can cast Aegis/Prot spirit on someone...and since dwayna's is AoE in the first place, any idiot can manage putting it on some minions. Yes, heroes are superior in damage simply due to death nova, they aren't superior in overall usage because of it. But a human can simply run prots/a few heals as well.

Ratson Itamar · Jul 11, 2009, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

3. Im sorry but I didn't get the memo that jagged bombers were bad. I'm pretty sure it at LEAST used to be the meta before AotL. With a 40/40 set this skill is still good. a 5 energy minion that causes a condition to power things like discord. Pretty low cost and easily used if...once again...minion bar.

It was used by bad players. You tell me if it's worth wasting your elite for raising a level 16 minion to fight against level 30 monsters. Moreover, with its lowly max HP and AL it will get targeted really fast. And for what? Bleeding? Unfortunately your elite slot is better used with an other elite.

ajc2123 · Jul 11, 2009, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

It was used by bad players. You tell me if it's worth wasting your elite for raising a level 16 minion to fight against level 30 monsters. Moreover, with its lowly max HP and AL it will get targeted really fast. And for what? Bleeding? Unfortunately your elite slot is better used with an other elite.

That's the point, it was used to power Death Nova along with the bone minions. And hey if it gets an attack through then that's good too.

Discordway is used by many bad players as well but thats considered good. I wonder why...

Ratson Itamar · Jul 11, 2009, 02:47 AM // 02:47

How exactly is that boosts DN's power? You're more often overflowing with minions than not. And no, if it gets an attack through it's not enough.

This will give you a more accurate description of the skill:

5 energy , 1 activation, 15 recharge.
Elite skill. When a minion dies you deal minimum damage (less than 10) and inflict bleeding for 25 seconds. When this minion dies you get your Soul Reaping's worth if you didn't get it 3 already in the last 15 seconds.

Still think it's worth it? It's getting off topic though.

IronSheik · Jul 11, 2009, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Well, despite the long recharge, it supplies a minion normally in the front lines that either gets killed near instantly, or has time to get DN put on it.

ajc2123 · Jul 11, 2009, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

How exactly is that boosts DN's power? You're more often overflowing with minions than not. And no, if it gets an attack through it's not enough.

This will give you a more accurate description of the skill:

5 energy , 1 activation, 15 recharge.
Elite skill. When a minion dies you deal minimum damage (less than 10) and inflict bleeding for 25 seconds. When this minion dies you get your Soul Reaping's worth if you didn't get it 3 already in the last 15 seconds.

Still think it's worth it? It's getting off topic though.

5 energy , 1 activation, 15 recharge.
Elite skill. When a minion dies Death nova is set off and you still have a body blocking the enemy from moving. This gives you time to raise more minions that are getting killed in HM by crazy monsters. If death nova is casted again you get MORE AoE damage. This spell is only 5 energy which is nice because even though you have soul reaping you are spamming the crap out of death nova and casting prots on your party at the same time.

amidoinitright?

Bah I'm done. I still stand by a minion bar being a better way to buff human Minion masters since Heros will still use this suggestion just as well.

Mad Lord of Milk · Jul 11, 2009, 06:05 AM // 06:05

If a Minion Bar is what I think it is, your Party Tab would be jumping all over the place.

I'm fine with Death Nova as it is.

upier · Jul 11, 2009, 07:10 AM // 07:10

I don't see the reason why that strange wording is needed.
We already have the Dwayna's Sorrow template. So thus, DN would be:
For 30 seconds, target ally and all nearby allies are enchanted with Death Nova. If an ally dies while under the effects of Death Nova, all adjacent foes take 26...85 damage and are Poisoned for 15 seconds.

Singed.
It's not like this pushes a MB over the edge. The guy is still subpar to what else you could be doing with your necro.

Arkantos · Jul 11, 2009, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I don't see the reason why that strange wording is needed.
We already have the Dwayna's Sorrow template. So thus, DN would be:
For 30 seconds, target ally and all nearby allies are enchanted with Death Nova. If an ally dies while under the effects of Death Nova, all adjacent foes take 26...85 damage and are Poisoned for 15 seconds.

Singed.
It's not like this pushes a MB over the edge. The guy is still subpar to what else you could be doing with your necro.

Subpar compared to other necro builds? That's funny. A MB creates up to 10 mini tanking bombs that deal 105 armor ignoring damage when they die. That's with 2 out of 8 skills on their bar.

Skye Marin · Jul 11, 2009, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Area would be too enchant-cover heavy. Keep the damage as it is, and make it "target and up to 3 other nearby allies". Done, MM bomber becomes a little easier on non-heroes.